Prepare For The Sale

[0:00] Life is too short. Work should be fun. Everything should have passion in it. And enjoying what you do is the most important. And we'll give you a few tips and tricks along the way in this episode of how you can find that.

[0:17] Welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. If you are listening to this, you are likely leading a team responsible for generating revenue. Purpose of Full Funnel Freedom is to support people like yourself self and keep your funnels consistently, reliably full. Welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. I'm your host, Hamish Knox. Today, I am delighted to have experienced podcaster and Chief Revenue Officer at Brightway, Rick Fox, as my guest today. Backed by his deep understanding of the insurance agency experience, having built his own successful independent insurance agency at the start of his career, Rick is responsible for supporting and and streamlining customer and agency growth and the expansion of operations through new product offerings and revenue streams. Prior to joining Brightway, Rick held the role of Head of Agency Sales at Vertifor, a leading insurance software solution service, and previously served as the President of Agency Revolution, an agency automation and marketing consultancy. Rick, welcome to Full Funnel Freedom. Hey, Mish. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. I had a blast when we first connected a little while ago and delighted that our audience of sales leaders around the world can hear your wisdom today. I've given the audience the 30,000-foot view of you and your story. Tell us more detail. Tell us where you started to how you got to where you are today. Yeah.

[1:44] Thanks for having me. I love doing this kind of stuff. Like you mentioned, I do this from the other side, so it's fun to get to kind of open up and do my part. Part uh so i started a million years ago what feels like now in sales and just had having been a what i think is that some of us are born to sell and that was kind of my dynamic so i i started off in insurance um worked my way through an agency i didn't have a college degree at the time and realized that this business world probably needed one so i stopped went back to college got my degree started my own agency built that up organically and then i bought up a bunch of other seven other agencies um kept using that sales but now started to learn the business side of it and i thought that was a very important part of being a better salesman is understanding business better instead of just selling uh sold that off got into the technology side i did two stints, like you mentioned, at Vertifor, largest insurance technology company in the United States. In the middle was an equity owner of Agency Revolution. We built that up, sold that off to a different private equity company. I was back at Vertifor running all of agency sales. So basically, I think I had 23 teams underneath me working from the smallest all the way to the largest in the agency space of insurance.

[3:10] Went through the transaction when we sold from private equity to Roper Technologies.

[3:17] Which is a publicly traded company. It's a $5.5 billion deal.

[3:22] Was kept on in hopes of me staying there for a long time. But this opportunity to come to Brightway, I couldn't pass it up. It was the two things that I love most. It's sales of insurance, and we can dig into that, and entrepreneurship, as you can tell from my background, I've done a lot of different things. I got the opportunity to go back onto the agency side, which I loved, and run revenue, which I love, and to help others open franchises and be entrepreneurs, which I love.

[3:54] And finally, the cherry on top is back into private equity, which I really am a big fan of the pace and the velocity, and that brings us to today. Amazing story, and yeah, lots of different things that we could unpack for the audience of sales leaders today. I guess the first thing that I'm curious about, we will get to insurance shortly. The first thing I'm curious about is, From your experience as a sales leader, head of an agency, equity owner, what are some of the key things that the audience listening should be thinking about when they are thinking of acquiring or when they are being acquired to ensure that they keep delivering as they're expected to while there's a bunch of turmoil going on in the background? round? It's a great question. And I think the best way if I if I took it to the highest level and work down from there, it's always thinking about your business as if what if somebody was going to come in here tomorrow and do diligence on it.

[4:56] And if you think about it, because it's the same thing, the best example I can give you is like, we live in our homes.

[5:02] And you know, there's probably a paint chip here. Or we haven't quite, you know, we wanted to expand the back patio over there and we don't do those things always right but then we decide we want to sell the house and we run around and we fix everything and as then then by the time we're done we're like oh I love it here why am I gonna sell this right so so two things happen if you run your business as if someone was gonna come due diligence on you one is you prepare if that in fact is the end game but the second is is you love your house you love your business more because you're doing all those things that you probably had in a list and didn't find time for, the paint, the patio, whatever that might be in your business. And so the biggest piece of advice I could give for anybody in an organization that at some point might either look to bring on an equity partner or an acquisition, go through a transaction, is always be prepared for that and look at what would generate more Xs at the end. Like instead of a 5X, could you do a 7X? How would you do that? Are you where you should be from an HR perspective, from a tech perspective, from a process and procedures and manual? Like all of those little pieces seem like, yeah, we'll get to our sales playbook later.

[6:25] And then it's like, okay, well, now we're looking at an acquisition. We better put together a playbook so it looks like we had one. You don't really have one, but you don't have it in a place. So I really think the best analogy is if you think about it like your home, we've all been there. We've all.

[6:42] Passed on that home improvement project but then later done it and wished we would have done it two years before i say the same thing for business i try to use analogies that people can kind of put into their life in any in any form of sales or any form of business but that one to me is the one that really kind of it really hits because if you are ready at any moment your business is probably more profitable anyway because you did all those things what a brilliant analogy i actually have not heard that analogy before so thank you for sharing that with me and our audience that is really cool it's actually got my wheels turning a little bit on my business as well so appreciate you kicking us off uh the podcast that way rick so shifting over to insurance clearly a passion of yours i've uh you know i buy i am a consumer of insurance on business and professional side worked and worked with uh supported several uh insurance uh selling organizations insurance Insurance is the ultimate

[7:38] thing that everybody needs. Nobody wants it. They all think it's a commodity. So even going back to your very beginnings, how do you support a sales team who is going out and selling something everybody needs, nobody wants, and they just tell you they want it for the cheapest price? Yeah. So the analogy I use there is insurance agents are like police.

[8:02] You never want them around until you really need them around. That's the way I say it. But for me, it is a passion. And I always say, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And I didn't make that one up, right?

[8:20] But all the things that I've done through the technology, through the sales, through being an agent, the thing that I looked in the mirror and felt the most proud of myself was being an insurance agent. Because you really truly are selling peace of mind, protecting assets. Think about how like the bad case of this is, is when people don't get the right protection, they could lose everything. And they could not only lose everything they have, they could lose the next 20 years of earnings to replace it. So the piece where I'm almost evangelical about is this, the piece what you said which is people don't understand it and it's changed over time for different reasons so back in the day again been doing this forever, it was there was not an easy access to information that there is today so you needed to explain it so people understood it it still was about price for a lot of folks.

[9:20] But as, and I'll just call them out, Geico has changed the dynamic with their advertising. Their advertising is basically saying 15 minutes can save you 15%. So they're telling you that the reason you should call them is to save money and it'll be fast. So if you're going to get surgery, are you going to go online and find the lowest price, quickest doctor? Like so like and and this can be any business but obviously insurance is but insurance whatever it is you're i mean if you're selling cars or you're selling mattresses or you're selling.

[9:56] Pharmaceuticals find your passion about why it's important that they work with you mine is just it's inherent like insurance is inherent like i'm passionate about it because it's something they need so then you start looking at the world being you know especially through the pandemic, commoditized even more. Everything was, you know, Amazon, Netflix, Uber Eats, click, click, done. And so there is a responsibility at the insurance level to scratch all those itches, meaning make it easy, make it self-service when necessary, but be in the background to be a professional. Again, I mentioned the doctor example. Like if you need to get a contract written, you see an attorney. If you're injured, you see a doctor. if you need insurance, you talk to an agent. And I've always instilled that in my people so that there is this like almost a prideful way that you go out to market, that people should be doing business with you because you're going to take care of them, because you're going to protect them. Now we're not curing cancer, but this is still pretty, it's a pretty honorable thing. And that's, if you live there.

[11:02] That works. Now, since I spent so much time in technology, and like I mentioned at Vertifor, I think I had 22 different teams that reported in to me, there are the same qualities that we would use there. So this is – you're going to sense a theme here that my thing is about genuine pride in what it is you're doing and letting that come through in the way you sell. But the same thing was the independent insurance agent is the best way for you or anybody else to consume insurance.

[11:32] So if we were able to give better technology, so these agents were able to move faster, get more done, be there for their customers, would that be something we should be proud of? The answer is yes. And so I took that same insurance agent mentality into technology because we're still helping insurance agents help people.

[11:53] But again, that is my journey. But anybody that's listening in, if you take that genuine prideful approach to start and, don't say it once and never go back to it, live it, breathe it, reaffirm it, get everybody bought in on it. The other parts are easy. Like I can teach anybody to sell, but I can't teach people to genuinely sell with pride the thing that this person should buy from them. Absolutely. And that brings up the next great point you just brought this up to the to the audience the sales leaders we can be really passionate right we can really love insurance we can really love you know human behavior and human development that's my world uh and that's us and we're not scalable so from your experience because you've grown businesses in the past and grown teams how do you take that natural passion that is part of who you are and who I am as at our core, and, and impart that to your sellers who are going out and now doing the work that you and I used to do when we were an individual contributor? Yeah. I like, I think about it like this.

[13:08] First and foremost, it's what I already said, which is you can't say it once and think that they're going to get it. So you have to create like almost a stair step of the way this goes. So in my like I'm building a culture around this. I'm going to start with the vision. And that vision is what I just said in my case. And it could be anybody's in any vision. But then I set I set my goals.

[13:27] And those goals are very measurable. This is for the team, for the leaders of the team, for every individual. And we get into the level of you understand the vision. You're bought into the vision i'm going to repeat the vision over and over because i need you to understand it and and i'm going to find those of you that aren't and it's okay i'll say two things one not every employee is built for that and they may not make it and not every prospect needs to be a sale and they might not make it but if you look at through that lens you will find the right connection points so we build the goals and after we have set the goals now we we create expectations Expectations. And this is a two-sided thing, which we don't always think about. And especially in today's world, it's important to look at the expectations from both sides. First and foremost, you have goals, but here's my expectations of what I think you're going to do. Whether that's this many calls a day, this many hours a week spending bettering yourself, learning about, in the case of insurance, learning about insurance so that you are more educated and can pass on that education to those that think it's a commodity and shift that conversation.

[14:39] The other side of that is understanding the expectation of your employees. If you did a good job of bringing them in, they should understand what you're all about.

[14:51] I tell people, back in the day, you'd interview folks and you'd be sitting in a room with them and I'd say, look, I'm going to tell you the good, the bad and the ugly and what you should expect and we move at this pace and this and that because I'm not walking by your desk and turning like this because I didn't tell you the whole story.

[15:10] So if you do that and you set that expectation early and then they know exactly for their specific job what the expectation is, you still have to dig into what their expectation is of the job. And I think that's where a lot of people miss is that and this is where you find that it's not always connected because you might heard somebody said, yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. That's great. I need a job. But they might not match up with what it is. That's your vision, your goals and the expectations. So you need to find their expectations. And a lot of times it's just, they want to be treated a certain way. Like this, this particular person needs tough love. This person needs a pat on the back, like whatever that looks like. But if you start deciphering that, and then I, I'm going to keep saying this shampoo rinse repeat Hamish, but you've got to keep cascading that information. You've got to keep living what you can't say. Here's the culture we're going to build. All right. I'll see you guys in a month. Like that does not work. So you set the vision, you build the goals, you give it very clear communication of expectations, and you spend time understanding what their expectation is. And you find that point, that's when teams start to really hum, and that's when sales start to really cook.

[16:23] We want to hear your burning questions about sales and sales management. Whether you're curious about strategies, challenges, or career advice, send us your questions. We'll be addressing them in one of our upcoming episodes, providing ideas and insights to help you excel in your sales career. You can submit your questions in the link in the show notes. So don't hesitate, shoot your questions our way and help shape a future discussion. Thanks for listening to Full Funnel Freedom.

[16:56] This is really brilliant because you're bringing in the fact that there's another human being. We're not working with robots, right? There's a human being on that side. And something I heard you say is, you know, not everybody's going to make it through on the team. And not everybody is going to make it from prospect to client. And both of those are okay. And I agree with you on that. Would you unpack that for the audience? Pick whichever one you want to start with and give us a bit more insight from your experience about Why is that okay

[17:26] and how is it ultimately beneficial for our organizations? Yeah, and we'll just keep running the thread of the insurance. But think about an insurance, potential insurance customer. I'll just paint an exact example of a prospect that is in an industry that is not thought of highly in insurance. So they will pay more than everybody else because it's a high risk. Sure. So instantly someone is drawn to that because they're going to give you more money.

[17:54] What they don't always do is decipher whether or not the extra let's say 2x commission is worth the 5x service it's going to take to manage this piece of business i'm and this is a big piece because especially i don't say younger but less seasoned sellers are looking for the dollar and they see and i'll use the tommy boy reference the pretty little pet and they want to take care of their sale but the real big shift is when you see sellers start thinking about that in terms of you know what this isn't worth anyone's time and even if it's a big deal good sellers will be like we're not walking into that we're not walking into that hornet's nest yeah and i think that is one of the key ingredients to great like i say i see let me give you my now i this is what i say to any seller when they start i say there's two ways to be a good seller number one is you're just a grinder you're the first one in the door you're the last one out you're making the most calls most touch points you are grinding that you can be a good salesperson and be a grinder the other one is the a plus seller some of us are born with it some of it and even myself and i'm like i'll go up against anybody in sales straight up like i don't have anybody that would worry me that i couldn't outsell them.

[19:15] But that's started with the ego and the confidence, but it built off of the work that I do on that and the constant betterment that I'm trying to make of myself now more in leadership than sales.

[19:27] You've got this A-plus seller. Somebody either learned it or they were born with it or some combination of both, but they're listening to podcasts or reading books. They're in their car practicing their scripts. That kind of a person can be a really good seller. When I talk to people that I'm hiring for sales, I do this with my hands and I say, I want somebody who's both. That's the difference. The grinder that is also the A-plus seller, that's how you go from a good seller to a great seller. How do you go from great to elite? That difference is the little things, like what I said. Are you willing to walk away from even big deals because you know they're not right? That's elite. And when you find a team, it's like a batting order for a baseball team. They're not all three-hole hitters, right? They're not all home run guys. Like, you're going to have guys and gals that fit into your utility role-playing positions but are putting up numbers that are continuing to move you forward.

[20:30] But you're going to have those leadoff guys, third, three holes, like, you know, starting quarter, like, whatever sports analogy you want to use. Totally. But that's where you're looking to turn the utility players into all-stars and the all-stars into Hall of Famers. And if you can go from good to great, great to elite, and work through, again, expectations and all those little pieces, man, that's the fun part. Like this is still – like I grew up as an athlete, and winning is still – it's part of me. In fact, a lot of the people I've hired have athletic backgrounds because they know how to compete, and they want to win. And that's a big piece of this. So I appreciate the analogy and the insight on, you know, how do you go from, you know, good to great, great to elite? And then, you know, I'm a former sports journalist, so I totally resonate with all those analogies. How do we course correct, right? So this sounds great, right? Have the expectations conversations, and then they're gone. And you and I both know that doesn't work because we're working with humans. So how, from your perspective, do we have that course correction when we've had the expectations conversation and then our seller is off the plot, as the British say?

[21:43] Yeah, so first and foremost, at the off the rails portion of this is that shouldn't happen very much. And if it does, it shouldn't be very far off because of the way that you've got this set up with the goals, the expectations and the communication.

[21:59] If you're doing those things, it's very, it doesn't take long to find the hole. So if I, if I look at it from a different lens, I look at it from a funnel lens and.

[22:10] I, and I'm very big on all right, four, six, nine, however many phases there are in the funnel and, and making sure that the leadership, whether that's me and I'm managing the sellers or I'm managing managers who have the sellers is.

[22:28] Here's the not let's just say there's four buckets there's four parts of the funnel sure you are in one of those parts and it takes x to get to the next part we know that right all right it looks like susan is stuck in bucket two with 70 of her business what is happening there well we would have already built kind of the the the analytics against what's happening there so let's say the The second bucket is you've had a welcome call, and now you're getting to, can I get you a quote? Right. And she's stuck in getting to the quote. We would have already had a conversation that said, this is the three things you need to do for her, one, because the first step would be, Susan, you got 72% of your business in bucket two, go to work. Second would be, let's sit down and walk through it with her.

[23:21] And say and and and i think the thing that happens so much hamish and i've seen this all over the place and i've had people in my orgs that have done it it's still that same thing which is they they say okay it's the first of the month here's your here's your uh here's your goals i'll see you on the last day of the month and i'm gonna kill you if you don't have your numbers right yeah and, and then what makes a good what takes a good manager or a good manager to great and a great manager to elite is understanding exactly what we just talked about and doing it in a way that doesn't feel micromanaging, which is hard. It's a hard thing to do. So if you think about that person having a leader, someone to lean on, do you have, do you have peers? Do they have potentially accountability partners within their peer group? All of these pieces go to the greater good because the greater good is they make more money. The greater good is your organization makes more money. They're great. They still have a job, right? I mean, they're all things. So I think that where this falls off is we get really busy all the way back to the beginning and not getting to our home improvement projects. And so our managers are doing nine different things with their hair on fire. But your job is to get those sellers to those numbers that month or that quarter, depending on how your organization works. And so I don't see that being as much of a problem as some do.

[24:46] Simply because it never really gets that bad. Now, if it does, you train them in or you train them out and you move on because this is still a sales business. If you've got 10 sellers, everybody's got to sell 20 policies. That's 200 policies. If somebody's selling zero, that's 20 policies that somebody else has to sell, which makes it more difficult, simple math there, I'm not saying anything any of your listeners don't know. But man, that's where I think there's a big difference. I think you can really.

[25:19] You can really get people, and when we do it that way, you see people that might not have made it otherwise that end up making it because they don't need to be told five times, maybe twice, some maybe three times, ideally once, but you know what I mean. But then those seventh batter in the lineups are still on the team.

[25:41] They're still making progress. Instead of 14, they got to 18. Instead of 18, now they hit their number of 20.

[25:47] That that's that's as rewarding as any of the other stuff and to keep using that that analogy like not everybody can bat fourth or lead off right like we have to have somebody batting seven eight nine because we have a seven eight nine position and that's that's called life that's called the universe whatever you run that thread and your nine hole hitter just quit that's just an out that's just an out like you don't you have nobody in the lineup like so it's really it's It's really getting that comfort level that you've got good, you've got great, and then you've got a few that are elite. And you should be able to coach through that. And if you're doing it right and having the right conversations, I've been very successful pretty much everywhere I've gone with that as my mantra and my communication style. And people have made a lot of money doing it that working for me. So it's worked so far. Knock on wood. Knock on wood, yeah, so far so good, Rick. So I have a few questions for you before we wrap up today. The first one being, if you could go back and coach younger Rick, go back as far as you like, and go, hey younger Rick, in the future you're gonna have had all this great experience, you'll have run great businesses, you'll have run great teams, you're also gonna have a lot of scar tissue and bumps and bruises. What would you coach younger Rick to say or do different to get to the same place but with a little less scar tissue and one or two fewer bumps and bruises?

[27:13] Uh, and this goes for my selling days and my manager days. I would have been, I would, I'd tell younger Rick, um, that to keep his ego in check and listen better. Like that was the one thing that, that I, I wanted to sell through the conversation instead of listening and getting those signals and using my emotional intelligence to hear how they needed to be talked to and hear what they needed to hear on their side, either for the sale or, again, when I started in leadership positions, even more so in leadership positions. I read that book. I think it's called EQ or Emotional Intelligence 2.0. Great book. Great book. Anybody who hasn't read it should read it. And I would tell myself that you're – like I still believe I'm the best salesperson in the world. I actually am now. Then I wasn't because I wasn't as good at listening as I could have been. But I would say whether you're in sales, leadership, anything in life, a husband, a coach, a friend, listening is kind of a pretty big deal. And not just trying to talk your way through it, that would have been the one thing I would have told myself.

[28:28] Beautiful insight. Thank you for sharing that with us. And you've actually partially answered my second question or my next question, which is, what have you read, watched, or listened to, whether recently or in the past, that you would encourage the audience to check out for their own development

[28:41] aside from Emotional Intelligence 2.0? Well, first and foremost, it's your podcast. I mean, that would be where I'd start. That's where I would start, Hamish.

[28:51] Emotional Intelligence 2.0 is a great book for kind of your own personal growth. Like for sales, my favorite book is still the Challenger sales book. That one to me is – there's a few chapters that I like and there's about five chapters that I absolutely live by. And I make everybody read that. I've read it myself. It's an important health position. I like Start With Why by Simon Sinek. I think that's a great book. And who I listen to, I'm very old school. So it's Simon Sinek, Brendan Burchard, Tony Robbins. Um i'm just always looking for some enlightenment onto how you make it more personal well again whether that's a sale or in relationship with somebody that you work with right um and those are just very positive people that are looking at it through a lens that i appreciate i think simon senec's lens on why to me is like the most crucial and and again the why Why is how you build your vision, which is where we started this.

[29:55] And then for insurance stuff, there's a lot of great podcasts and insurance, but specific to those, that's the stuff I spend my time on. Very cool. Thank you very much for sharing that with our audience of sales leaders around the world, Rick. Last question for you. You've already given us so many amazing ideas and insights around how to build up teams, how to build up businesses, how to sell something

[30:17] that everybody needs but nobody wants. What do you have as a closing thought, a final bit of wisdom, or something to plug? The floor is yours. No, yeah, I would say just think about what you do. And this is going to sound almost sappy, but it's the way I really truly feel is like really, really make sure that what you're doing is what you love. And whether that's leadership of folks, whether it's the product you sell, whether it's trying to get your business to a certain valuation so you can get the exit, whatever that is, make sure what your drivers are what they should be.

[30:55] As a young kid, we were not wealthy. We did not. I didn't grow up in poverty, but we were not wealthy. And my mom used to say, what do you want to be when you grow up? And, you know, my buddy wanted to be a fireman and this guy wanted to be in the NBA. And I would just say, it doesn't really matter. I just want to be rich. And my wife, my mom would say, you know, money does not always buy you happiness. And I'm like, yeah, whatever. You know, if I'm rich, I'm going to be happy. And it's like, I really like cherish that now. And I think back on it and I think, you know what?

[31:28] I mean, money does help. Like I'm not, you know, having, having wealth does not, does not hurt, but really enjoying what I do. And like I said earlier, you know, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. I think everyone should strive for that. And I have friends or almost friends that I'm not as close with anymore that, you know, kind of the disconnect has been that they're complaining about their job and their lot in life. And it's like, go change it. Like, there is opportunities everywhere. And if you don't love what you do, then go find something that you do love and do that. And that would be my, my advice would be to just kind of live, live with that in, in, in the, in the forefront of your mind when you're looking at your career, because you're going to spend a lot, like you're going to spend more time at work working than you are with your family. Other than maybe sleeping gets in there is one of the top things you do, but during your waking hours, you're going to be at work. So love it.

[32:29] Embrace it. What a great way to wrap up the episode today. Rick, thank you so much for being a guest on Full Funnel Freedom today. My pleasure, Hamish. Thanks for having me, man.

[32:42] Sales leaders, I love Rick's passion for what he does. It really resonates with me, as you all know because you've been listening since the beginning. I've got a lot of energy and a lot of excitement for the work that I do, and I'm not apologizing for it anymore. I used to, and I'm not because I love what I do and clearly Rick does as well I also love his analogy about the bit our business being like a house and it reminded me of that uh Steve Jobs story about how him and his dad were building a fence in their backyard and his dad wanted to make the back of the fence which was going uh was going to be facing a ravine as good as the the front of the fence and Steve supposedly said dad why do we want to do this no one will ever see it and And his dad said something like, yes, but we'll know it's there. And that felt to me like how sometimes the things look good on the front end and then the stuff behind the scenes kind of falls apart. But, hey, that's operations problem or that's customer service problem, not our problem. However, it ultimately reflects on us and our sellers. I also really appreciated his thoughts on how do you translate your passion for what you sell into your sellers? because if you are an entrepreneur who is listening, you're not scalable. And sales leaders who are listening, you're not scalable either. And you've got sellers to do the job that you used to do as an individual contributor. So having that ongoing relationship.

[34:10] Repetition of why are we doing this how are we supporting our clients because it's not about us it's about our clients and helping them solve their problems and by helping them solve their problems we make money we grow and scale I also really enjoyed his idea around having that expectations conversation up front which I've heard from several of you that you are doing already with your sellers and then also how to have the course correction conversation because as we we talked about in the episode, it's all well and good to have the here's the path that we're on. However, we're all working with humans and humans go off the plot every now and then. So how do we bring them back on? Or how do we gently help them discover that maybe they're not a good fit for the organization anymore? Those were my takeaways. I'm very curious to hear about yours. Let us know in the comments on our social media. And until we connect on the next episode, go create full Full Funnel Freedom. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Full Funnel Freedom podcast. You can continue to support us by leaving us a review and a rating, sharing this episode with a couple of sales leaders in your network who you care about. I'd love to connect with you. I'm easy to find, Hamish Knox on LinkedIn. Also, if you'd like a free 15-minute call with me, go to www.hamish.sandler.com forward slash howtosandler. Until we connect on the next episode, go create full funnel freedom.

[35:38] Music.