No One Sees the World the Way We Do, and What to Do About It

[0:00] Sales when done right by a professional right someone who's doing it for the right reasons and in in the right way and i will use that judgment like in in the right way sure that sales person is actually a leader over the prospect especially in 2024 if they can't solve it themselves and they have to actually talk to a salesperson then they're they're looking for something otherwise they would just buy it online like we all are used to right so something is missing where they can't solve the problem themselves. So if I'm dealing with you, the salesperson, I'm looking for something. And really what I'm looking for, the punchline, is I'm looking for leadership.

[0:35] Music.

[0:41] Welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. If you are listening to this, you are likely leading a team responsible for generating revenue. Purpose of Full Funnel freedom is to support people like yourself and keep your funnels consistently, reliably full. Welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. I'm your host, Hamish Knox. Today, I am really excited to have Jason Cutter, Chief Transformation Officer of Cutter Consulting Group, as my guest today. As the Chief Transformation Officer, Jason is focused on delivering on his mission every day, facilitating transformation by sparking light bulb moments helping the underdog win and leaving people better than when he found them he has learned to combine his analytical operations mind with an understanding of sales to help companies build profitable teams and individual salespeople close more deals and produce scalable results jason is a recognized thought leader four-time author and international speaker focused on creating scalable sales teams full of authentic persuaders, trademark. His foundational book, Selling with Authentic Persuasion, transformed from order taker to quota breaker, provides salespeople and leaders with a guidepost for shifting quote unquote sales from being a feeling gross to a professional person wanting to be part of that interaction. Jason, welcome to Full Funnel Freedom.

[2:09] Thank you for having me. It's so exciting to be here. I'm glad we made this happen. And I feel like I just need you to record that or say that to me every day. So I'm just pumped up and ready to go because I'm super excited for wherever this goes now after that interview. Happy to send you that voice message every morning when you can say you got it when you wake up in the morning. So Jason, given the audience, like the high level, right? You know, who are you? What do you do? What's a bit of your background? Tell us your story. Tell us where you started. You have an operations mind. So there's a bit of a story there. And then take us all the way up to where you are today with Cutter Consultant. I am the product of two analytical parents, a banker mom and an engineer dad who went on to successful careers, both in analytical leadership ventures.

[2:55] I was a shy, awkward, late bloomer, slightly bullied, awkward, weird kid that never fit in with two analytical parents, such that I actually have my bachelor's degree in marine biology. And there was a moment in my life in my late teens, early 20s, where standing on a boat surrounded by great white sharks was smarter and safer than dealing with humans. Because I wasn't really a fan of people. And I didn't feel like people were a fan of me. And so I was just all analytical, science, math, sharks.

[3:27] Life took me lots of different directions. Turned out I was actually pretty good with people, especially service related fell into sales and the mortgage business back in 2002 when it was just pure order taking because everyone just wanted to to buy or refinance just like the boom that we had recently uh never thought i was in sales until years later when i was put in charge of a team because they fired a sales leader and i was in ops and all of a sudden i was in charge of sales and ops and had to figure it out and um you know interesting fact about me i've received zero minutes of corporate sales or leadership training.

[4:03] After being pushed into the leadership role, every other company after then hired me in a leadership role and said, okay, well, you should know what you're doing. So can you fix this and help us grow or help us rebuild X? So I've always just had to figure it out and learned a lot of stuff on my own, hard way, learn from other people, just listening and watching and just kind of developed into my own sales style that's not just mine, but really what do people want? What are they looking for from a salesperson? And how do we avoid what my parents still hate to this day, which is gross salespeople, right? Like I was raised in a salespeople are terrible. Don't ever do that. Don't ever treat people like that mode where, you know, that's really the mission I'm on is how do you help people not default into the classic mode and just really see sales as service.

[4:58] What a great journey and story. And, you know, I would call that a typical household upbringing as it relates to salespeople.

[5:05] You know, I have shared with some people that I have two daughters, nine and almost 12, and I've never said to either of them, I want you to be in sales when you grow up. I have said entrepreneur, which is code for salesperson. They'll find that out later. But, you know, most parents are like, yeah, don't be that cheesy, slimy, pushy, aggressive seller. So, Jason, I've had a client who was an operations leader and then their boss came to them and said, hey, you're so successful here, how about you take over the sales team? Now, fortunately, the CEO actually did invest in some development, so they got that, which you did not.

[5:44] I'm curious for the sales leaders listening, take us into the mind of an operations leader and then how you made that transition over. because sometimes we have sales is from Mars, operations is from Venus kind of going on. So from your background, what is that operations leader looking for from their peer on sales? And then how did you make that transition into a sales leader? It's interesting because there is that ops versus sales.

[6:12] Really, and again, this is a sales full funnel, you know, freedom podcast. It's about salespeople for salespeople. But it's typically in organizations I see it's sales versus everybody. Everybody, sales versus marketing, sales versus ops, sales versus customer service. Like sales thinks they're the golden child and you're never at fault. And I completely disagree with that. And really it's not a anti-sales, it's a everybody's important and everyone needs to grow in the same direction, which we could talk about. Amen. And so.

[6:40] For me, what happened was the sales leader was fired because he basically said, if you want sales to be more effective, then he told the CEO, you have to do more marketing. And the owner's like, no, you're not converting well enough. Like this is a sales function, not a marketing function, right? The phone's ringing. You're just not converting. And so then I was moved into that role where it was like, this is not working. Go, go fix it. Um, and so I think the key for me and And what I see from people who are successful in that realm is instead of looking at sales as something where if I just hire people who know what to say and I get the right people on the team and just let them go, you know, do whatever they do best. Instead of that mode, which I think is dangerous and impossible to scale, where you're relying on superstars who need no adult supervision to make enough business that actually works for the company, which is a very important distinction.

[7:42] If you want it to scale, you have to build systems and processes. So operation minded people look at and go, OK, I want you to do what you do best as a human interacting with another human. But let's have systems. Let's have processes. Let's have technologies. Let's have the evil thing that everyone hates that I love referring to, which is scripts and structure within the confines of that. And so operation minded people in general, even, you know, sales ops is how do we build this as a repeatable machine so that we know if we dump in this, this many tokens into the machine, we're going to get this much out the other end. And everyone can focus on what they do best, which is talking to people and not admin, not other stuff. And so how do you build that structure? And to me, that's where it works really well is where an operational system process-minded person, can look at what should we systematize and then what do we still need people, especially right now in 2024, to do as a salesperson.

[8:45] I really appreciate you sharing that and especially that last, the coda of like, where do we still need humans? Because I've had several guests on the podcast previously, and I've got a couple coming up that are, I wouldn't say anti-structure or anti-process because I don't think any of us really understand that, you know, chaos is a great way of scaling a sales organization. And at the same time, I'm sure you've seen this as well, structure can get overused by sales leaders to the point where it actually feels like handcuffs, not a real supportive structure. So when you have experienced that in your career, whether it was before Cutter Consulting or with your clients, how do you help that sales leader really understand that, yes, structure is good and humans are still necessary? It's interesting because I never see a situation where it's over-structured except for typically an owner of a smaller type organization.

[9:42] Smaller size, let's say, where they've been burned by salespeople so many times they feel like they have to micromanage and choke the process to death. Got it. It's mostly stick and very little carrot because they're trying to confine this human who doesn't like to be confined, which is a salesperson, and then get them to produce results that actually benefit the company that aren't in the gray or in the black in terrible ways of the deals that they're closing and the things that they're saying that are uncompliant. And so they just basically are choking this thing to death, which is not supportive. The other end that I see more of is an organization where people, again, are hoping that somebody's going to come on board to solve their sales problems by being an all-knowing sales rock star. And that should be enough.

[10:34] Yeah. Too many conversations like that with owners who got burned, similar to the story you shared. So shifting from the not-so-happy stuff of overuse and all that, let's focus onto the passion. Of like authentic persuasion and and and sales being in service to the buyer so so walk us through the development of this from from your perspective because operational minded right analytical structure etc etc and it it's not the other side of the same coin or 180 degrees or anything like that but it's it's not necessarily what your background is so walk us through that that step change that you made into this idea of sale selling being in service to the buyer.

[11:18] So, you know, one of the benefits I have from not being, I'm going to use super air quotes for anyone listening, classically trained in sales is that I wasn't told what sales is. I only know from life and growing up what sales that is terrible should be avoided or when it's a battle, right? Like when I was a kid and my parents started buying new cars, like as they were doing better and better in their careers, it became an all-day event, right? Like this is back in the 80s. And as an only child sitting there watching a TV in a waiting room that smells like tires and old coffee, while my mom, the banker, battles everybody they can throw at her for, I remember the record is nine hours we spent at a Toyota dealership buying a four-wheel when I was a kid. And there's no electronics.

[12:04] I've got three channels to watch. This sucks, right? So I only know what wasn't good. So I wasn't classically trained. So all I know is coming from a family of service, like where it's about, especially as an underdog, I want to help other people. To me, I didn't even think I was in sales forever because sales is this, but I was doing this, right? I was helping people either buying a house or then I went into a mode where I was helping people avoid foreclosure and helping them keep their house. And then I was helping people get out of debt. And I was like, to me, it was always service, right? Like my job is to just help you. I don't I it's not this isn't even about me and so coming from that mode then it's not sales is not something I'm doing to you which is the classic manipulation mode it's so that I can benefit it's something I'm doing for you and with you and when it's done right it's also a win-win right like you're getting something and then I'm going to get something but let's make sure that everyone is winning uh for the long term and that's really where that mindset for me was solidified because, again, I didn't think I was in sales because sales is X, and that wasn't me. And then when I looked back at it, when I felt called to write the book, I...

[13:19] Basically reverse engineered everything I had done myself. And then also with teams and hundreds and hundreds of people over the years where, what did we do? What worked? What, what resonated at scale? Not just because somebody had a natural born talent and they could just show up and talk to anybody, but like what, what worked repeatedly month in month out getting results.

[13:43] And then I I put a term to that authentic persuasion and you know, there's the, and it's in that order, right? Like you gotta be authentic. Then you can persuade. Some people focus on persuasion. Some people are authentic, authentic order takers who, you know, fail at sales. And some people are just heavy on persuasion, but it's not true. It's, you know, it's not authentic. And so where is that combination that, you know, again, it doesn't require natural born sales skills, let's say. Right. Right. And I don't believe natural born sales skills exist. And so I had the experience in the eighties is it was three channels and copies of time magazine that were six to 18 months out of date. That was the other, that was the other experience that I had, or an old copy of Chatelaine. If you're, for those of you who are in Canada, uh, that the flipping through the recipe section of that to entertain myself. So Jason, when we look at authentic persuader, what as a sales leader does it mean to be an authentic persuader the authentic part is really important because a lot of people are like well of course I'm authentic and you know I'm transparent it's like a lot of it has to do with self-awareness that's the first part.

[14:53] Is who are you? What's authentic for you? What do you believe? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? What are your inherent, what's your inherent baggage and your lens and filter that you look in the world? And then how do you just come across in a way that's authentic for you? Like, are you weird or goofy?

[15:11] You know, are you serious, professional, analytical? You know, where does that fit in? And as a leader and in sales, what's interesting, and I've just seen this more and more even since the book came out is that to me sales when done right by a professional right someone who's doing it for the right reasons and in in the right way and i will use that judgment like in in the right way sure that sales person is actually a leader over the prospect so the prospective customers coming to that sales person especially in 2024 if they can't solve it themselves and they have to actually talk to a salesperson then they're they're looking for something otherwise they would just buy it online like we all are used to right so something is missing where they can't solve the problem themselves so if I'm dealing with you the salesperson I'm looking for something and really what I'm looking for the punchline is I'm looking for leadership I want you to tell me what's the best direction how to get there tell me that you've helped other people like me get there and then I want to follow So when sales is done right, it's leadership, with and of that prospect where they're following and you're pulling them. Old school sales is manipulation and pushing, right? It's I'm gonna push you across the finish line whether you like it or not, right? Hopefully you'll like it but I don't care, right? That's really gross.

[16:32] Sales in the leadership is pulling. Like I know where the finish line is, come with me and I'm gonna get you to a better place out of pain and towards gain.

[16:41] The interesting thing that is if sales is leadership and once you realize that it changes the game of sales completely because now it's not me versus you it's me and you and it's you following me right like you need me and i know where to go so if sales is leadership then leadership is sales because now it's leadership of the sales person and the same principles apply i've got to know who you are i've got to treat you as an individual i got to give you what you need and then I have to lead you with persuasion towards the goal that we all want to accomplish and so the same things that you do as a salesperson with that prospect is the same things you would do as a leader but a lot of people don't see that they just they think it's different roles so I got to be different people what a great insight no and no different way of shifting that mindset of is we are we are selling and we are leading simultaneously regardless of role. One of the things that I maintain is that if our buyer is pulling us forward, we can't be pushy sellers because they're like, hey, let's go this way. We're like, hey, that's a great place to go. Let's go that way, Jason.

[17:44] So as a leader, and especially as a new leader who maybe got promoted because I was the best salesperson, and that never happens, how do I shift this focus? Because what I hear from you is like, focus on the individual, get to know what they want, et cetera, et cetera. That sounds scary. That sounds squishy. That might sound like a bit of an HR violation. Like, how do we make this effective without, you know, sort of still maintaining our leadership role, so to speak, so our seller feels like we're on their side, except we are still, you know, leader and seller and not buddies?

[18:26] So, and that's a really good point. Even that last part is interesting because you've got to watch out for the friend zone, especially, and this is a session that I do for teams and especially supervisors and leaders, especially new supervisors and leaders. There's a segment called Buddy to Boss, which is where is that interesting, and I'll use air quotes again because it's not interesting in a fun way, but where is that interesting dynamic that happens with, hey, you and I, Hamish, we're peers today. Oh, by the way, tomorrow I got promoted. Now I'm your boss. Now you need to listen to me. And by the way, we're not winning because that's why I'm in charge because somebody had to take over. And now you need to listen to me and when are you going to close more deals, right? And you're thinking, I remember what we talked about the night before when we went out for drinks and I like you as a friend, but trust me, I know what you actually do behind the scenes and I'm not going to listen to you, right?

[19:20] I know what we were just talking about, the previous boss who just got promoted or fired and like, yeah, I don't, I'm not, I don't respect you in that role. So that's always a fun dynamic. But going back to your question, again, I'm going to use the judgmental thing, which triggers some people is when it's done right, when I'm selling to you, so I'm the seller, then I need to understand that you are not me. Meaning that us as humans, we default to thinking everyone sees the world the way that we see it and thinks the way that we think. If you need examples of that.

[19:57] Bring up politics with someone, bring up religion with someone, bring up the economy, bring up anything like that, any health choices, bring up something where it's so polarizing because you either see the world or bring up college sports here in the U.S., anything where, like, if I feel a certain way, everyone else has to be wrong because I'm right, because I'm human and I see the world the way I see it, right? Right.

[20:21] So the problem is, is that if we default into our human mode, we think everyone sees the world the way they see it. I fundamentally do not understand why everyone doesn't understand what the left lane on the freeway is for. Whenever they're in front of me, no matter what speed I'm going, I don't understand why they're in front of me. Right. Like I don't get it because I see the world the way I see it. So one of the challenges I see with salespeople, because they're human and they're a special group of human that's also on a mission to sell people something that they see of value, is they forget that that other person is not them. So they want things a certain way. They need things a certain way. And so the platinum rule, as it's referred to, is you give people what they need, not what you need or what you think they need. And so you have to sell to them in the way that they want to be sold to, the way they want to buy, and the way they want to be communicated with.

[21:12] Once you realize that, sales is a completely different dynamic as well. For leadership, going back to your question, kind of setting the framework of this, is so many people that get promoted into leadership role, their brain is fixated on, here's what I did in sales. Here's what I was motivated by.

[21:31] I was motivated to make lots of money and get in the president's club, and this is what I did. And I don't like internet leads, but I like Facebook leads, or I like knocking on doors, and here's what I did. And so everyone else should do what I do. And if you're not successful and not doing what I'm doing, it's not a good fit, right? If you don't care about being in President's Club, then I don't know what to do with you. And so the problem is, is they forget that everybody is different. There's personality types, there's behaviors, there's love languages.

[22:00] You're talking about HR violations, but there's love languages, there's astrological signs, there's baggage, there's experiences, there's game player types, like all these things that that I cover with with leaders and teams, you have to understand that everyone's different. So the key is, is you've got to get to know what do people want? Why do they want it? What's important to them? And then how do they like to be communicated? And then what you're doing is leading them the way they want to be led towards the destination that everyone is trying to go to. You and I resonate on that 1000%. There's at least one listener out there who's going but that sounds hard.

[22:38] It is. It is. But here, real quick, most sales leaders are in charge of three to five to eight to ten people for direct reports. That's not that hard. You can. And here's the thing, right? And this is important for people to listen to. It's not hard, but it takes work. So you've got to actually like to work and you have to actually want to win intentionally instead of just hoping that you can be like a sports team where you just get all of the top people in the league on your team and that's just going to magically work out without ever having coaching, with no practicing, with just showing up and playing the game. It doesn't work. So it does take work and effort. And people are like, wow, but isn't it going to be weird if I tell them what I'm doing? No, because everyone thinks they're special. So if you tell them what you're doing and you want to know about them and you follow a playbook and a list of things to understand them and then treat them special, that is exactly what every human wants, which is exactly what your buyers want. They want to feel special. Not that you give them the same demo that you give everybody and you're so drunk, you're so tired of it and you're desensitized and you literally don't care. Everyone needs to feel special, especially right now where everyone is so isolated in the world.

[24:01] Totally. So I feel like I want to circle back on one thing because we did talk about the peer to boss now and those kinds of things.

[24:12] Also, though, I believe that a leader's greatest source of strength is their vulnerability. And when they can be appropriately vulnerable with each individual team member and the team as a whole on occasion, they can actually create more of that persuasion. So I'm curious, we've already defined like what the bad looks like in terms of like buddy to boss. I love that title. How would a leader, from your experience, leverage appropriate vulnerability to be an authentic persuader? Yeah, and that's a tough one to make general statements. I mean, I think the biggest thing is no one likes working for a hypocrite. Let me put it a different way. No one respects a hypocrite. Okay. Right? And no one wants to follow a hypocrite. And I know no one is a pretty big term to use. Some people might do it short term. I'm gonna say most people slash no one wants to. And if you're a leader, if you just assume that no one wants to follow you if you're a hypocrite, right? In the do as I say, not as I do, right? Like, hey, you know, we're in the office. That leader, I'm going to use air quotes here on leader, is, hey, I need you to dump the garbage before you leave, but I'm too good to do it. That's why I have you. That's why I have people.

[25:24] No one respects that person. It starts to degrade. So one of the things is not being a hypocrite and just making sure that you're not. And again, this is where being in the sales role and being promoted can work in your favor, which is I used to be in that role. I know what it takes. I know your struggles, and I know what it takes to succeed. So just trust me. Like, I wasn't hired off the street to tell you what to do. Like, I know what it takes to close X number of deals per month, quarter, whatever. So that's the first part. And then the second part is just transparent communication.

[26:00] It's always a balance because you don't necessarily want to share everything with the team of all the issues that might be happening behind the scenes once you're in a leadership role. And you're exposed to some challenges that are trying to be fixed and nobody needs to know until it's been fixed or resolved or what's in the process. But when something isn't working, being transparent. Hey, you're right. These leads aren't working. This marketing isn't working. Let's see what else we can do, right? In that, hey, not everything is going to be perfect and if it's not working, how do I agree, right? How am I the balance between I've worked for the company but I'm also supporting you? you. I can advocate for you and I can advocate for the company. And so this is a team event, right? It's not just always like, Hey, do, do this or do that. Or the leads are great. You, if you can't close

[26:47] these leads, this is your fault. Right. Right. And so it's, it's about that transparency. And then it's also being a business professional, appropriate amount of human. And the reason I say it like that is also kind of the buddy to boss, but in general, like everyone's got stuff going on. If you're having a bad day as a leader, or you've got personal stuff stuff going on or you got things going on. You know, sometimes it's appropriate to just share that because people appreciate that you're human. They want to feel related, relatable to you.

[27:18] They want to feel like you understand them because you go through similar stuff. I've seen leaders where it's like everything seems to be great and it's like they don't understand people. And then I've seen other leaders who are like, yeah, I got it. I'm going through this. I'm going through that. I'm like, I get it. And I empathize with you. And that's where the authenticity piece comes in, where professionally business appropriate, but just being authentic, being you, and wanting to support them in not a manager dictator role, but in a true leadership role. Very cool. I appreciate where you're coming from on that professional human, right? Professionally appropriately human. That's a great message for us to transition to the last couple of questions I have for you for today, Jason. Number one being, you have an incredible story you've shared with us at the beginning of the podcast.

[28:11] I also got to believe you've probably got a bunch of scar tissue and bumps and bruises from that journey. And so I'm curious if you could go back and coach younger Jason, go back as far as you like. Maybe it's on the boat with the sharks and you could say hey younger jason in the future you're going to be a four times author you're going to have this amazing company and all these great clients you also will have a lot of scar tissue and bumps and bruises what would you coach younger jason to say or do differently to get to the same place but with a little less scar tissue and fewer bumps and bruises you know that's always a tough one because i've asked people this similar type of question and people have asked me and it's tough to really want to change anything because Because of all that trajectory that made me who I am, including a time where for four years I literally ran away from sales and ops and business and life and the continental United States and went and did something completely different and then found what I wanted to do and then came back, right, in the consulting mode. And so, you know, I think the biggest thing would be really telling younger me to embrace the fact that I do actually like helping people and I want to help people much earlier than when I realized it. Again, I did it. I was in these roles where I dealt with people, but still not a huge fan and not aware. I think self-awareness you have to kind of grow into by, you know, the bumps and the bruises. but really studying people and learning other people.

[29:37] And the transition was really tough and took too long for me to realize that not everyone wants to buy the way that I wanna buy. And I used to sell to everyone in the same analytical way with lots of spreadsheets and data. And that destroyed so many deals because it overwhelmed, it put everyone into analysis paralysis. And so I would totally have stopped that cycle sooner.

[30:02] What an incredible answer. And I know from me, like I am not an analytical buyer, you would have lost me in four and a half seconds to be like, great, yeah, someone else. Like, I don't need to know all that stuff. That is a really awesome self-aware answer. And I really appreciate you sharing that with us today, Jason. So curious, I mean, aside from your books, what have you read, watched, listened to either recently or in the past you would encourage the sales leaders who are listening to check out for their own development? Oh man, you know, I think we talked about this in advance. This is such a tough one. So here's the one that I love. It's somewhat shock value, but it's also the most important leadership book. If I have to give one leadership book out there, it's The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. And again, it's the weirdest recommendation. No other sales podcast, no other leadership podcast. Will you hear that be the leadership book is The Five Love Languages. And for people who are listening, if HR is listening, they made a HR appropriate one that's called the five languages of appreciation in the workplace, because one of the love languages is physical touch. HR gets kind of weird about that. And there's a lot of reasons. And here's why, without going into a lot of details, because I do a lot of training about this and why this is so important. It helps you disconnect yourself from thinking everyone sees the world the way that you see it. And when you do that, and again, five love languages, that's weird. I'm here for sales. We've got killers on the team. Totally. Trust me.

[31:29] When you apply that to your team in the right way as a leader and your relationship, because it's all relationships, sales, leadership, personal life, it's all relationships. It doesn't matter. It's all the same in relationships. When you understand that and you start to intentionally see that and act differently, especially with people that you want to persuade or lead, game changer. So that's number one. Biggest thing I recommend. Again, I do a lot of training on that to help teams understand it. The second one if i had to give a book for self like um for leadership i really like cy wakeman's books um uh no ego is the main one i forget the second one that's even more impactful what it talks about is like ego and team and people being bought in and wanting to be there and how you make the decision of like you know the the good to great like getting the right people on the bus and the wrong people off the bus cy wakeman cy wakeman um her stuff is great from Just any leadership. It's not sales. It's just any leadership of any group of people. And then last one, which isn't necessarily in this category, but if anyone is struggling with sales, if anyone feels like sales is a little harder now in 2024 when we're recording this than it ever has been in the past, which the answer is absolutely yes, of course. I can't speak enough about the sales innovation paradox by Dr. Howard Dover.

[32:49] It will tell you all the reasons why sales is so much harder and it will give you some ideas on what to do about it I'll just leave it at that awesome recommendations I am a huge fan of sigh as well so thank you for for all of that and the five love languages oddly enough as well I I often say love it love is optional love is not optional and it could be it can still apply even if HR is in the room so Jason your ideas and insights today have been massively inspiring to me and I certainly would believe for our audience as well what do you have for a final thought or a closing bit of wisdom or even something to plug floors yours you know I think the biggest takeaway is really the combination of what we've been talking about.

[33:31] But just remember, in this day and age, people have unlimited choice. Buyers and employees, we all feel like we have unlimited choice. Thanks to the internet. Thanks to globalization. Thanks to working remote. Thanks to everything. People can buy whatever they want at any moment online.

[33:48] If they're dealing with you as a salesperson, there's something they're looking for. And what they're really looking for is wisdom and guidance. They don't need to know how your product works. They just want to know how it's going to help them. And when you realize that, along with other things, it changes the dynamics of the relationship. You go into a leader mode and do all those things. And so just remember that. That's what people are looking for. And everyone just wants to feel special and cared about. I don't care if you're selling B2B to CEOs and you're selling enterprise. It's all humans. They all care about themselves.

[34:22] There's a huge deficit right now of people feeling special and cared about. And that's what people want most when you do that from your sales role everything else is so much simpler what a great way to wrap up today's episode of full funnel freedom jason thank you for being our guest today thanks for having me and uh i knew this was going to be a blast i hope this helps people in your audience uh you know with their sales and leadership thanks for listening to today's episode of the full funnel freedom podcast you can continue to support us by by leaving us a review and a rating, sharing this episode with a couple of sales leaders in your network who you care about. I'd love to connect with you. I'm easy to find Hamish Knox on LinkedIn. Also, if you'd like a free 15 minute call with me, go to www.hamish.sandler.com forward slash how to Sandler. Until we connect on the next episode, go create full funnel freedom.

[35:21] Music.