How Understanding and Adapting Your Behavioral Style Creates Motivation in Your Sales Team

[0:04] This is the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast, supporting sales leaders and managers to improve their sales funnels from people to prospects. I'm Hamish Knox. In this show, you'll learn how you can improve your results, lead a great team, and hit more targets with Full Funnel Freedom. Welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. I'm your host, Hamish Knox. Today, we're getting ideas and insights on communication with your sales team from Markku Kaupanen. The Full Funnel Freedom podcast is brought to you by Sandler in Calgary. Go to hamish.sandler.com slash howtosandler for more details. So my guest today, Markku, is the president and CEO of Extended Disc North America, and he's been in that role since 1997.

[0:54] His focus and passion are to help individuals, teams, and organizations to become more successful by providing easy-to-use information on how to modify behaviors.

[1:07] Marku, welcome to the Full Funnel Freedom podcast. Thank you, Hamish. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you here today. You've been a huge friend and guide of mine in the areas of communications and how people like to give and receive information.

[1:21] I've given the audience the 10-second version of Marku's story, So give us the 90-second version. Tell us a bit more about how you got to where you are and a bit more about what Extended Disk does to support your clients. Well, certainly. I've been doing this since 1997, and I really got into this business by chance because I met the key developer of Extended Disk back in Helsinki, Finland in the mid-90s. And I soon understood the value of the information we provide because in my previous career, I was in banking and I spent most of my time, about 30% of my time dealing with people issues. And as a manager, it was very frustrating and frustrating. I realized if I had that information as a banker, my life would have been a lot easier and got in the business that I've been doing for almost 25 years and continue with that mission, making lives easier for everybody by understanding how we are different, what our preferred ways of communicating and doing things, selling, leading, managing, serving clients is, and providing that information to help our clients to make better hiring decisions and help their employees to become more successful. and productive. Awesome. And I have experienced DISC, extended DISC. Let's just be clear.

[2:37] DISC, you can find DISC on the internet for free, right? You can just Google DISC and there's these surveys, quote unquote. But extended DISC, you really dive into who we are as human beings, not who we think we necessarily need to be, even though that's part of how the survey works. Is that accurate? That is accurate, Hamish. Nobody owns DISC. It's basically in public domain, main open source, if you will, been around since 1928. And we really focus on not only on the assessments, the assessments we see as the starting point. We want to create what I call confidence, self-awareness, but our focus is how we help individuals to modify their behavior. When they're interacting with others, they learn to identify other people's preferences, how to communicate more effectively, how to lead more effectively, how to sell more effectively and so on. So extended disc is our proprietary product. Very cool. And one of the things that I know I've learned from you is, and there are no good or bad, right? People, when they look at things like this and they have a label, oh, I'm a D or I'm an I, I'm an S, I'm a C. Well, no, that's just how we like to give and receive information. It's how we consume the world. And I've heard you say multiple times, there are no good or bad. It's just easier or more difficult. Can you dive into easier, more difficult, a little bit more for the audience? Yes. We have our preferred behavioral style or this style. And simply what it means is that that kind of behavioral style takes a least amount of energy for much. It's kind of our home turf.

[4:07] And there's no, like you said, there's no good or bad. They're simply different. But one of the, probably the most wonderful thing that I experienced since I started doing this, Hamish, is that I met a lot of successful people like you. And what I've noticed is that people are very different. Successful people come from different backgrounds, different parts of the world, different experiences, and they also have different behavioral styles or dis-styles. But one thing I always found that is common with these successful people is that they are confidently self-aware and they realize they have some strengths and they're also very honest about their weaknesses, but they learn to modify their behavior. And successful people are able to read other people. They know how to make conscious decisions about how they should modify their behavioral role style, how they communicate, how they lead, and so on. So no, there's no good or bad, but there are some common themes among successful people. Yeah, that's a very fair point because a lot of when we look at assessments, just in general, right? DISC is one of a myriad of assessments that are out there for all different types of things is, you know, some people will feel, well, I'm getting put in a box. And again, going back to this, you know, no good or bad, easier, more difficult. I have a long time client who is in their natural style, their preferred mode of communicating is in like the bottom corner of the eye dominant.

[5:34] Right. So you're thinking that, you know, not very detail oriented, super bubbly, outgoing, et cetera, et cetera. They also have their professional engineering or PNG designation. OK. And so if you if you just say on the surface, well, I dominant equals can't be engineer. Well, that's not true. They just have a preferred way of communicating. And they, to your point, have really learned to adapt their style to interact more effectively with maybe some of their more reserved project managers and other engineers. So as we look at DISC and being that self-awareness side, from a leadership perspective.

[6:09] Where do, from your experience, a lot of leaders go, offside might be too strong, but maybe are incongruent with their team when it comes to communicating effectively with them? In terms of their DISC styles? In terms of using DISC and how that all wraps up. Well, successful leaders, like we just talked about, they are very self-aware and they're honest about themselves and they are comfortable in their own skin. And when somebody is comfortable in their skin, others can see that. They appear confident in everything that they do. And they also are, in a way, vulnerable. People recognize that this individual has a clear understanding who they are, that they are, again, comfortable with their strengths and weaknesses. And they are always trying to really understand who they are interacting with and who they're communicating with. And they tailor their message and how economical or how many words they use and what type of words they use and what kind of content they provide. So they're really able to communicate their vision very clearly, and they're also able to.

[7:22] Understand when the communication is not successful and they make those adjustments all the time it's if you communicate one-on-one it's a lot easier to make those adjustments because you're only adjusting to one person when you are communicating to a lot of people at the same time you have to practice that skill a little bit more where you're able to talk to everyone and there's certain things you can do and i'm i assume and i'm actually certain you are doing that with your clients you help them for example sales managers and other leaders how do you communicate with your team and once you begin to like anything in life when you begin to practice it it becomes second nature and then you own it and and you don't begin to autopilot but you continually improve that skill and it becomes like muscle memory yeah i love that way of putting it because uh there's a quote i saw or heard in a in a in a summary of a book and i can't even remember the name of the book but But the quote was, knowledge is rumor until it lives in the muscle. It's from a tribe called the Asaros in Indonesia. And it really resonated because, you know, you look at a disc report and the disc reports are very detailed, right? You can get as high or as detailed as you want to get.

[8:39] But if all I got was, hey, here's my report. OK, I now have self-awareness. Put it in the drawer. See you later. Well, that's not necessarily going to affect my behavior. And it's probably going to come out in how I interact with my clients. So what have you seen from your own personal experience since you've been learning DISC or maybe from talking to your clients? How does being able to adapt the communication style make a sales leader's job easier?

[9:05] It makes their life a lot easier and it makes the life of all managers a lot easier because when you are able to communicate your message very clearly and you are able to communicate, coach and develop and motivate and engage your employees, it begins to show almost immediately.

[9:23] You know, we know this saying that employees don't quit the companies, they quit the managers. And I think all of us have had experiences when we work for somebody that simply was not a good manager. And a lot of that goes back to behavioral style conflicts. And when a manager is able to understand what those adjustments they can make, because we need to remember that the only thing I can control is my own behavior. I have six children. I've learned the hard way that I have absolutely no control over those six individuals. But what I do have control over is how do I parent my different styles of children? And in practice, if I have a dinner conversation with my kids, I almost never have all six at the table at the same time, but let's say I have two or three of them. When I have a conversation with one child and then I focus on another child, I mentally count to three and think about how I need to change my style to my different style of child. And if a manager does the same thing, imagine what an impact it has in terms of engagement, motivation, and of course, coaching that employee to achieve higher and a higher level of success. The benefit is one on the performance side. My Finnish accent is coming through. On the performance side, but also it makes the life of the manager a lot easier.

[10:52] I remember many years ago that I spent so much time losing sleep.

[10:58] Dealing with the employee issues. I couldn't understand why with certain employees, they could perform so well. And I had easy time leading them. But with others, it was like trying to grab a whole bar of soap. It kept slipping through my hands. And I did not really have an understanding, what do I need to do differently to become more successful? And that's what the DISC model, the framework really does. It provides a roadmap for us to be more successful. I love the idea of taking a pause. So if we're in this sort of, let's say it's a sales funnel review meeting, we've got our whole team around the around the table or in a video call, and just taking that mental pause, because I've also heard or read some research about how in North America, people can go less than three seconds of silence in a conversation before they feel the need to start talking. And I can say from my own experience, both on prospecting side and working with my team, that if I do make that pause, sometimes someone will jump in and give me information that I probably never would have got otherwise, mostly because I'm not smart enough to ask the right question to get there, but also because they feel that need. So even from a strategic perspective of mentally switching to, okay, now I'm talking to Mark who Mark who prefers to be communicated with this way. But in the interim, you may start sharing some information with me that I wouldn't have necessarily gone otherwise. So there seems to be a dual payoff to that. In terms of.

[12:25] Helping your team understand. So we understand ourselves. We understand our team from a leader, from a coaching perspective, as a leader, how do we get our people to understand the power of understanding themselves and adapting? Well, you mentioned a little while ago that a lot of times these assessments, people go through them, but then they filed them away and they file cabinet. And when you do that, it was entertaining and fun, but nothing has changed. And really what What we hope to achieve with our clients is that it becomes part of their culture. And it's a very simple way to actually do it if you remember as a manager to do this. When a manager has a conversation with the employees and they always ask this one question, what style was that prospect or what style is your colleague or that customer? It becomes part of the way we are doing things in our organization.

[13:21] Employees know that this is important to my boss. So I better start paying attention to it. And when they start paying attention to it, byproduct is that they will realize that my life becomes easier. I have an easier time dealing with my prospects. I've become more successful in selling. I've become better in taking care of our customers and so on. So it becomes that muscle memory we just talked about. And then it becomes part of the culture of the organization. And that's when everybody sees the benefit. Now, beyond that, when we leave our office, whether it's a brick and mortar office that some of us are now working at, or our kitchen table that some people have been doing in a couple of years, when we leave the work environment, now we can carry those same principles to our personal lives. We begin to have better relationships with our family members and friends. And then it really becomes part of our DNA. That's how we do things. Now, I've been doing this for 25 years. And every day, I forget to practice what I'm trying to preach here. Because to be effective in behavioral modification, we always have to be very present. We have to focus on what is happening right now. And also, we are emotional beings. And I always say that strong Strong emotions are the enemy of behavioral modifications.

[14:45] So if you think about when you're upset, you're stressed, you are angry, what we tend to do, actually we always do this, we revert to our natural behavioral style. Like your example you used, that eye style individual, when they are under pressure or angry, they become that ultra high eye style. And it becomes very difficult for them to modify their behavior. So we just need to remain present. we need to be aware of our emotions and make those conscious decisions. Who am I dealing with and what can I do in this situation to make the interaction as productive as possible?

[15:21] Yeah, well said, because under pressure, we all go to our comfort zone, right? And we all have a communication comfort zone and things like that. And I know for even me, you know, for the listeners out there, my style is DCI. So as I say to my vendors, I am your single easiest close and I'm your worst client, because I won't ask you for the details until after I'm not getting what I thought I bought, even though I might have made it up in my head. And I know under pressure, I go into, you know, damn the torpedoes mode. And I, and I start for, you know, doesn't matter what about the people that matters about the outcome. And I've certainly learned how to modify that and be self aware. So I when I'm going into damn the torpedoes mode, but for leaders who are learning about disk or who are maybe a little, you know, still working on that self awareness component, what are some of the ways they could become aware or trap themselves? Into pausing, like you talked about earlier, and resetting themselves. Because if we continue on the extreme, we're going to have to deal with the aftermath later, and that might be worse than taking a pause right now. Fair? That is very true. And in all of our development activities, no matter what the context is, whether it's communication or leadership, sales, and so on, we typically have a four-step approach that we try to implement.

[16:43] And it really first begins understanding that people are different. We don't judge them in terms of being better or worse. There's different behavioral styles. That is the DISC model. The second step that managers really take learn to develop that confidence, self-awareness. They get their own assessment results and they begin to realize that they have a lot of strengths. Some of those strengths, in fact, they may be overusing to a point where they become liabilities.

[17:12] And third, they learn skills to identify the styles of other people. That's actually fairly simple to learn. You just simply need to pay attention to behavioral patterns. We don't want to jump into conclusions too quickly about what we think the style of the other person is. And then they begin to make those behavioral modifications.

[17:34] I know who I am. I have a pretty high confidence. I know who the other person is. How do I now modify their behavior? And when you go through these four steps, you have a step-by-step process, which you go through, which forces you to kind of slow down and calm down and be present. You have to pay attention to the other person and then make the commitment to make those those conscious decisions about how do I modify my behavior? What do I think is the best way to communicate or lead this person? Or how do I modify myself behaviors in order to produce the desired outcomes in this situation? And of course, we make adjustments along the way, but we are very focused on the situation. A lot of times we have these internal conversations going on while we are in the conversation with another person, and it creates this distraction.

[18:28] That doesn't allow us to be as successful as we could be. It sounds like in addition to understanding how we like to give and receive information, communicate, there's also a big component of listening. As we understand our disc style, we're also understanding how we will listen or how we will be present or not with one of our direct reports. And what I'm hearing in this four-step process is that it actually also forces us to listen. in. Is that accurate? That is very true. We have to realize that our behavioral style affects everything about it. It also affects how we listen to other people. Some people are naturally more comfortable listening.

[19:11] But also when it comes to listening, depending on our behavioral style, we tend to listen to certain type of things. Some people are very focused on facts. Some people are more focused on the emotions of other people. They're trying to really pay attention more to their body language and tonality and those kind of things instead of the words they're actually using. But you're absolutely correct. We need to really pay attention to the other person. Look for those subtle clues to try to understand who they are and what they are trying to communicate. And it also forces us to stop and ask better questions and trying to uncover what the other person was really trying to communicate. And like you mentioned a little while ago, sometimes it may mean be quiet for a while because that makes the other person reveal even more. So yeah, absolutely. Listening is a critical part of identifying somebody else's style that allows us to be more effective in our behavioral modification. verification. So one of the things that we teach our clients is we teach them, we call it a 15 second pause and to count backwards in your head from 50. And of course, usually by the time you get to 12, someone's speaking. So I was working with a leader who is D dominant as am I. So we are very to the point, bottom line, let's get going. I think the listeners of the podcast have picked that up already over the last episodes.

[20:33] And their direct report was more on the reserved side of the, of the disc wheel and reserved does not mean they're a reserved person. It means they more, they, they think, and then they talk.

[20:44] D's and I's are active. They talk to think as, as again, listeners can hear me talk to think on this podcast. So one of the things I reminded this leader of was this 15 second pause, but I said, by the way, it.

[20:56] It may take you longer than 15 seconds. And they said, what do you mean? And I said, well, given what I know of this other person and I'd work with them, they may take a little bit longer than 15 seconds. So 15 seconds is not a magic wand. It may take longer. So are you okay to sit in that kind of a silence because their natural style is to not.

[21:16] And they said, yeah, I can make that work. I said, great. Send me, let me know how it goes. I got a text that afternoon that just said 25 seconds. And so I called them and I said, what do you mean? And they said, I literally had to count to 25 before my direct report started talking. And we had the single best conversation we've ever had. That's a great story. Next sample. And so, you know, if we look at modifying and being able to ask better questions, as you said, and this is where I was picking up on is I've heard the one who initiates modify. So if I'm D dominant, you're S dominant. We'll just use that as example, which are, you know, on the diagonals of the disc chart, which means you know very opposite right yes yes what i understand is i should be asking you s style questions that relate to you know emotions and people and stability and things like that when i'm listening to you because that's going to tell you that i'm listening i'm hearing you because i'm responding in your style is that am i on the right path with that or am i completely offside no you're absolutely the right path because you really speak in my s style language which then you are slowing down a little bit, using a little bit different kinds of words instead of using a lot of I, me, myself. We use we, us, those kinds of things. I begin to get more comfortable. And when people are more comfortable, they begin to calm down. And when they are calmer and more present.

[22:37] They begin to open up. So absolutely right. If you have D-style very quick, fast, what's in it for me, what's going to do and so forth, it tends to stop the S-style and it does not create a very conducive and productive environment for the other person to communicate. So you absolutely correct, James. Awesome. I'm glad to hear that. Not sending disinformation on the podcast.

[23:00] The other side that I've discovered with DISC is preparing. And we talk a lot about pre-call planning, planning leaders coaching their teams. But I would imagine from a leadership perspective, if I'm preparing for a difficult, especially a difficult conversation with, again, we'll just keep using DNS as an example. You could say I and C or it doesn't necessarily matter. But if I'm talking to someone who's not of my style, which is probably the case, using pre-call planning to really get those thoughts in the front of your mind, because as you said earlier, we're going to to default to our natural style under pressure. And if the conversation is going sideways or in a direction I don't think it should go, I'm going to default back to my extreme as opposed to following along. So when you're working with leaders in your client base, how do they use or have you seen them leverage that idea of preparing to slow down or preparing before they go into these conversations with their direct report so they can stay on task? The ones who are successful using it, they are doing exactly that. They are always ready for different individuals. So if I'm doing a coaching session with one of my employees, one of the things they do is they.

[24:10] Remind themselves, okay, this is that person's style. Here are the do's and don'ts that I need to do. These are the kind of things I need to do in modifying my behavioral style. Because again, that's the only thing I can control to be as an effective leader or manager that I can be. So they're always looking at that. A lot of our clients, they have what we call a team chart, where they have the entire team mapped on this, what we call a diamond framework on their office its wall. And they look at that. It's a visual reminder. I have one just behind my screen here that I'm looking at right now.

[24:45] That's my team. And it's just a visual, tangible reminder to me what I need to do differently. Even that I know it, but I'm a visual person, that's a good reminder for me. What I've seen a lot of other organizations do that, they put that in their meeting group, confirm sure so it tells their not only the manager to be mindful of that but it communicates to the entire team this is what we use in order for us to be more successful so it reminds everybody two things one this is important for us my boss looks at this it's part of the culture but second when i'm interacting with my team members let me take a little quick glance of that and say okay okay, Heimish is a DCI. What do I need to do in my behavior to have a productive relationship with Heimish? What can I do as a team member to be more supportive? How should we work more effectively together? So those are a couple of things that I see how successful clients are. Do in order to use this model to its highest potential. I love that. And, you know, DISC is, as we've talked about, it's behavioral style communications.

[25:53] This is not just for sales. We've had some clients who actually have profiled all of their manufacturing floor workers and they put the dominant style on their hard hat. So if you're walking up to somebody because you need to give them feedback or you need to ask them a question about because there's a challenge on the production line or whatever, they can walk up and be in their head preparing, okay, so this person is eye dominant. I'm going to need to make sure that I focus on the positives and, you know, not get into too many details, et cetera, et cetera. So I love the idea of the diamond chart on the wall.

[26:24] I'm going to actually do that right as soon as we're done recording this podcast for my own team. So thank you for that today. So as Marku, as we are getting to the end of our session today, a few final questions for you. You've given us lots of great tips today on how and why implementing DISC is going to support a leader in creating full funnel of freedom in their sales team. To sum up, what would be the top two or three things you would recommend a sales leader action right away in order to start understanding their team a bit better and adapting their own behavior? I think I would go back to that four-step approach. I know it's more than three, but understand people are different and they are not better or worse in their behavioral styles. styles, there's this difference and understand what those differences are. Second, I think this is critical, no matter what you do, is that you develop that confidence self-awareness. You really take an honest look in the mirror, so to speak, and you begin to look at those strengths that you have, make sure you don't overuse them, get more comfortable with your development areas. We all have development areas and own up to those, learn to identify the styles of other people.

[27:33] Really, in a way, the most critical part is now that you have that information, put it into practice, use it, control your own behavior, make the modifications, and you'll be astonished what kind of differences you will see in not only your professional, but your personal success. Amen. Love that. Thank you so much. So let's, let's focus on you for the last couple of questions. So very successful, uh, leader. I, uh, I've got to watch you interact with, with your team and, and I've taken a lot away from learning from you since we've got to know each other. If you could go back in time and talk to younger Mercu and say, Hey, you're, you're going to go down this road. You're going to run into this bump. What would that bump be? And what would you coach your younger self to do to avoid it? I think the bumps along the way, in a way there have been opportunities, but too many opportunities can create distractions.

[28:26] So I consider myself a long-term perspective individual. I realize that things take time, but even there I get impatient and I kind of need to focus on what is our core business? What is our mission? What are we trying to do and not get distracted by too many opportunities? Opportunities like a recent example in the last two years we have created hundreds of new assessments and it's very exciting to do that but you really at the same time need to remain very focused on what is ultimately our focus which is help people to become more successful so not get sidetracked by distractions stay in your lane which is a common saying these days you really i I really would like to tell the younger myself that, hey, stay in your lane. You know what you are trying to accomplish. Don't get distracted.

[29:18] Absolutely. Absolutely. And that resonates with me as well. I will chase purple squirrels every now and then myself. But what are you doing to continue your own professional and personal development? What are you listening to, reading, watching that the listeners might get some insights from? I listen and focus mostly on our clients, what they are telling us in terms of what are their challenges, what are the things that they're worried about in the future, because that lets me know where our business and kind of where the world is going. I really try to focus on those. I used to read a lot of business books, and that kind of goes back to the distractions I talked about a little while ago. So I would read a book and I would get really motivated and I want to implement these different things. But then I would pick up the next book and I would get sidetracked by that.

[30:09] So I honestly been reading less, but kind of going back and rereading some of the things that I found valuable in the past and try to practice what I learned from those. It can remain a little bit more, more focus and understand what, what. Our business is all about and what are my strengths and what are my passions and focus on that and not allow all these other wonderful ideas distract me as much as I've been distracted in the past. Well, that's a great way to tie back to the self-awareness comment that we had at the very beginning of our session today. So Marku, we will put the link to Extended Disc North America in the show notes, of course. I very much appreciate your friendship and your guidance and you taking the the time to visit with us and share some insights with the audience around communication and how to make it more effective with the sales team. Well, Hamish, thanks for those kind words and thanks for having me. You've been listening to the Full Funnel Freedom Podcast. I've been your host, Hamish Knox. Today, we got many ideas and insights from Marku Kaupadin, President and CEO of Extended Disc North America on how to modify your behavior and communication style to more more effectively communicate with your team to create full funnel freedom. The Full Funnel Freedom Podcast is brought to you by Sandler in Calgary. Go to hamish.sandler.com forward slash how to Sandler for more details. Until we connect with you on the next Full Funnel Freedom Podcast.

[31:34] Thanks for listening. Rate us and leave a review. And until we connect on the next episode, go create full funnel freedom.

[31:43] Thank you for listening to Full Funnel Freedom with Hamish Knox. If you want to increase your sales with ease, go to fullfunnelfreedom.com.

[31:54] Music.